Solicitor General Ryan Park on Becoming a Lawyer, Learning from Mentors Past and Present and Serving the Public

Ryan Park is Solicitor General with the North Carolina Department of Justice. In the following interview, Ryan shares his thoughts on pursuing a career in law and public service, learning from his mentors, presenting an argument before the Supreme Court, balancing work and life, and more.    

I would like to hear a bit about your background and interest in the legal profession. Where are you from and where did you grow up? How did you decide to become a lawyer, and what were some early influences on your pursuit of this profession?

My mom first came to North Carolina in the 1970s to attend ECU as an international student from South Korea. After she graduated with a degree in library science and a love of Pirate basketball, my family settled in Minnesota, outside St. Paul, where I grew up.

As a kid, I was always obsessed with history, especially American history. From since before I can remember, my mom would drop me off at the local library and I’d spend all day in the stacks soaking up volumes on whatever I could find, from “Johnny Tremain” to thick tomes on Cold War diplomacy or the civil rights movement.

This interest led naturally to studying our system of government and the founders who designed and created it – many of whom, of course, were lawyers – and then to pursue law myself.

After attending law school, you clerked for judges on the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, and the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. In what ways did these experiences help to shape your area of practice and the trajectory of your career?

Clerking is the absolute best way to start your legal career, especially if you want a career in litigation. It is an amazing opportunity to play a key role in shaping the law, from within the heart of the judicial system itself, right out of law school.

I had the great privilege of learning from brilliant and principled judges at all three levels of the federal court system. I think these experiences equipped me with a broad and balanced perspective on the full litigation process, from filing a complaint to seeking review in the Supreme Court.

Although appellate clerkships sometimes garner more interest, clerking on the district court was probably the most fun and engaging job I’ve ever had. In the district court, you gain exposure to the full range of cases that end up in federal court – from constitutional challenges to criminal conspiracies; from complex securities and antitrust lawsuits to slip and falls. You’re also exposed to the full range of roles that a lawyer plays in litigation – from managing discovery to picking a jury, from fact-investigation to oral argument. I’d usually spend around half the day in court, observing hundreds of lawyers in any number of settings, and then the rest of the day (and much of the night!) researching and writing bench memos and draft opinions. It was exhilarating and I learned so much.

Another benefit of clerking is that it offers you early experience working closely with a very senior member of the profession. When I was clerking for Justice Ginsburg, I was just a few years out of law school and she was obviously one of the most significant figures in American law, ever. In that setting, you quickly learn to talk less, listen more, and train your focus wholly on helping the Justice do her job more effectively, rather than on your own concerns. That kind of experience breeds a kind of confident humility that is immensely useful later in your career, whether you’re advising government officials, counseling business executives, or trying to persuade a judge from the other side of the bench.

Before joining the Department of Justice, you worked as an attorney in a private law firm. What led to your interest in working with the Department of Justice in North Carolina?

I’ve always felt called to public service, but it took me some time to settle on a precise path. My first job as a lawyer was for the U.S. State Department, where I negotiated international property transactions for the federal government abroad – very different line of work than today! But I found myself drawn to the courtroom, probably based on my clerkship experiences, so I decided to spend some time at a large national firm in D.C. doing complex commercial and appellate litigation. It was wonderful training, where I learned how to practice law at the highest level in a fast-paced, pressure-filled environment.

But I still found myself drawn to government service. And, like a lot of folks, our family just kind of fell in love with North Carolina and wanted to make it our home. My two sisters had both lived in the Triangle for many years – my older sister is a professor at UNC Medical School and practices at the North Carolina Cancer Hospital – and we had spent a lot of time in the area. So when the opportunity came to work for Attorney General Stein, who I admired greatly and I only respect more and more the longer I work for him, I jumped at the chance and haven’t looked back. It was, by far, the best professional decision I’ve ever made.

In November 2019, as Deputy Solicitor General, you delivered an argument to the Supreme Court of the United States in Allen v. Cooper. In the case, you defended North Carolina’s sovereign immunity from a copyright lawsuit, a case that you won. Could you describe this experience for us – what was it like to prepare for and present your first argument to the Supreme Court, and to your friend and former mentor, Justice Ginsburg?

Seth Dearmin (DOJ Chief of Staff), Nick Brod (Assistant Solicitor General), Matt Sawchak, Ryan Park, Swain Wood (General Counsel), and Sripriya Narasimhan (Deputy General Counsel)

It was the thrill of a lifetime to argue in the Supreme Court. To stand at the lectern where Thurgood Marshall argued Brown, where Ruth Bader Ginsburg argued landmark cases like Frontiero, and speak to the Justices to represent the State of North Carolina was such a profound honor.

Even though I had been in that courtroom hundreds of times when it was my workplace, to be at the front of the room as the advocate was a nerve-wracking experience. It helped a lot to have my then-boss, Matt Sawchak, who had done so much to help prepare me for that moment, behind me in support, as well as my former boss, Justice Ginsburg, glowing down on me from the bench. As we were settling into our chairs, the Justice and I locked eyes and she gave me this gleeful look of encouragement that I’ll always remember. Later, when she began to question me, probing our position on a particular weak point, she looked up and smiled at me again, before calling me “Mr. Park” – the first time she had ever called me that, of course. I had to suppress a laugh before I turned to answer her question. Although we didn’t know it, that was the last time I ever spoke to the Justice in person. It was a very special moment. I’m so grateful to have had that opportunity.

More substantively, I was so glad that we were able to prevail on behalf of the state. It’s a fascinating case that has pretty much everything – from echoes of Blackbeard’s flagship, the Queen Anne’s Revenge, to intricate constitutional doctrine rooted in founding-era history and our federal system of government.

You wrote in 2015 and 2020 about Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s influence on your life, particularly on your role as a father, and on your profession. What were some of the most important lessons you learned from working with her? How has your experience in working with her made an impact on your work as Solicitor General?

Ryan and Eunee Park

Justice Ginsburg’s example is such a shining light, not only to me, but to so many others who didn’t have the good fortune to know her personally. We’re all living in the world that she helped to build. It’s hard to believe it now, but when she began her work at the ACLU’s Woman’s Rights Project, it was perfectly legal to exclude women from juries, to deny government benefits based on sex, to fire a woman when she became pregnant – that is, for the organizing premise of society to be that a woman’s place is in the home, and only the home.

Justice Ginsburg worked to break down these barriers as both a Supreme Court advocate and later as a Justice. Her work also went beyond the law, and extended to fostering a permission structure throughout society, where women and men would be allowed to pursue their interests and potential freely, without regard to traditional gender norms. Women can be trailblazing lawyers and men can be family-focused caretakers – these were once radical notions that she helped bring into broader acceptance.

On a personal level, I learned so much from her example. In her work, she was at once painstakingly careful and conscientious, while also deeply principled and courageous. She had that rare balance between broad strategic vision and meticulous execution that is the hallmark of all truly great lawyers. I could never match her iron will – this is a woman who, well into her 80s, regularly pulled all-nighters to work on her opinions while standing the entire time – but she set a bar to strive for. Her example is one that lives in me every day. I think all of us clerks are motivated to prove ourselves worthy of the opportunity to have worked for her.

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, left, with Ryan Park, his wife, Eunee, and their daughters.